Council chief executive to be invited to pay back 'unlawful' pension payments

Milford Mercury: Will Bryn Parry-Jones pay back the 'unlawful' pension cash? Will Bryn Parry-Jones pay back the 'unlawful' pension cash?

PEMBROKESHIRE County Council’s chief executive is to be invited to voluntarily repay the money he received in “unlawful” pension payments.

In September 2011, behind closed doors, the council’s senior staff committee decided to allow senior officers to receive the equivalent of the employer’s pension contribution when opting out of the local government pension scheme.

In January the Wales Audit Office (WAO) ruled that the decision was “unlawful” and the payments – received by council chief executive Bryn Parry Jones and one unnamed head of service - were “contrary to law”.

At an extraordinary meeting today (Thursday), 32 councillors voted in favour of asking the officers to repay the money, minus tax and National Insurance contributions. The responses will be presented to full council in July.

Twenty-one members voted against the motion which was put forward as an amendment by Councillor Jacob Williams, who together with Cllrs Paul Miller, Mike Stoddart, Tony Wilcox and Roderick Bowen called on the council to look at recovering the money.

If responses are not received, council will reconsider the original bid, members decided.

Council leader Cllr Jamie Adams said the move would be “entirely inappropriate”, “costly” and lead to a “breakdown of trust” between the authority and its employees.

He said: “It would be very odd for an employer to request employees to return funding in any way that had been put to them in good faith and received in good faith.”

The council rescinded its decision and withdrew the opt scheme at a hugely controversial meeting on February 14, during which several councillors left the chamber after being told they had predetermined their vote.

At Today’s meeting, Cllr Adams said continuing the debate “was not doing this authority any good” and putting employees in an “invidious” postion.

He added: “The sooner we draw a line under this, which we did on February 14, the better for everyone concerned and primarily for the people we provide services for in this county.

“We have to recognise that the payments will go down as a mistake of this council. I put my hands up for my part in that, I have apologised, I have learned from that and I move on. I would respectfully suggest that council also moves on.”

But other members disagreed. “Would it not be better to restore a bit of faith in the council from the people of Pembrokeshire and then draw a line under it?,” said Cllr Alison Lee.

Cllr Williams added: “There needs to be some sort of closure, people want some form of closure on this.”

Cllr Tessa Hodgson criticised the council for being willing to pay to defend its position, but unwilling to pay to recover tax payers’ money.

In 2012/13, the council paid £22,269 to the chief executive in pension payments, with a further £23,337 paid to Mr Parry Jones and another senior officer in 2013/14. The payments were subject to 40% tax and National Insurance contributions.

Cllr John Allen-Mirehouse said he could see a moral, but not an economic, case for recovering the payments.

“What we are talking about here is something which appears to me to be a relatively small amount of money,” he said.

But Cllr Pat Davies said: “It may seem like a relatively insignificant amount of money for you but for the vast majority of people in this county it’s not."

According to previous legal advice from Tim kerr QC, the council is not bound to seek repayment and any proceedings would have to go through the civil courts.

Mr Parry Jones withdrew left the chamber during the discussion, prompting Cllrs Mike Stoddart and Michael Evans to question whether the second officer involved was present.

Head of legal and committee services Huw Miller said: “As far as I’m aware none of the officers present is the second officer.”

Comments (43)

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5:42pm Thu 1 May 14

Indepedant says...

You shouldn't update at teatime. I nearly choked on my discomforts!
You shouldn't update at teatime. I nearly choked on my discomforts! Indepedant
  • Score: 10

5:42pm Thu 1 May 14

Indepedant says...

That should say fishfingers!
That should say fishfingers! Indepedant
  • Score: 8

5:43pm Thu 1 May 14

Tttoommy says...

what's wrong with jamie -does he not live on this planet ?


Has he not read a paper, watched TV or spoken with anyone in Pembrokeshire who isn't up to their necks in doo doo, maybe he limits his chats only to those ppl who are scared of losing their special allowance payment in the last few years?
what's wrong with jamie -does he not live on this planet ? Has he not read a paper, watched TV or spoken with anyone in Pembrokeshire who isn't up to their necks in doo doo, maybe he limits his chats only to those ppl who are scared of losing their special allowance payment in the last few years? Tttoommy
  • Score: 17

5:59pm Thu 1 May 14

Bilbo101 says...

Jamie Adams your a disgrace and not fit to be a part of this council let alone the leader of the IP Group. You fail to grasp the feelings of the overwhelming majority of Pembrokeshire people. Lets put it down as a mistake, say we are sorry and sweep it under the carpet shall we Jamie, and just accept the loss ??? I THINK BLOODY NOT, the money belongs to the people of Pembrokeshire and is not for you to write it off as a "mistake". Too many mistakes have been written off Mr Adams and most have come with a half hearted "oh did i get away with that one" apologies.

Nothing but a bunch of incompetent spineless muppets, you should all go and go now.

Mr Adams you maybe the blue eyed boy in the eyes of the Camrose electorate but the rest of Pembrokeshire I can tell you hold you with some quite considerable contempt. If there was a referendum tomorrow on whether or not the people of Pembrokeshire had any confidence in Bryns little poodle and his tribe of yes men then I would bet all I have that it would be an overwhelming NO vote.

Call this a democracy, it is a joke and it gets worse by the day. The IP Group, Bryn Parry-Jones, and all the other yes men who have wronged the people of Pembrokeshire need to go and a full and proper investigation needs to be carried out into this council and the misuse of Council Tax money, because Bryn's illegal pension payment is only the tip of the iceberg and we need to know just how much money these incompetents have squandered and how much of that activity was illegal and those responsible need to be made to account for their mismanagement of our council and our council tax.
Jamie Adams your a disgrace and not fit to be a part of this council let alone the leader of the IP Group. You fail to grasp the feelings of the overwhelming majority of Pembrokeshire people. Lets put it down as a mistake, say we are sorry and sweep it under the carpet shall we Jamie, and just accept the loss ??? I THINK BLOODY NOT, the money belongs to the people of Pembrokeshire and is not for you to write it off as a "mistake". Too many mistakes have been written off Mr Adams and most have come with a half hearted "oh did i get away with that one" apologies. Nothing but a bunch of incompetent spineless muppets, you should all go and go now. Mr Adams you maybe the blue eyed boy in the eyes of the Camrose electorate but the rest of Pembrokeshire I can tell you hold you with some quite considerable contempt. If there was a referendum tomorrow on whether or not the people of Pembrokeshire had any confidence in Bryns little poodle and his tribe of yes men then I would bet all I have that it would be an overwhelming NO vote. Call this a democracy, it is a joke and it gets worse by the day. The IP Group, Bryn Parry-Jones, and all the other yes men who have wronged the people of Pembrokeshire need to go and a full and proper investigation needs to be carried out into this council and the misuse of Council Tax money, because Bryn's illegal pension payment is only the tip of the iceberg and we need to know just how much money these incompetents have squandered and how much of that activity was illegal and those responsible need to be made to account for their mismanagement of our council and our council tax. Bilbo101
  • Score: 68

6:49pm Thu 1 May 14

miss_m says...

Well said Bilbo101, they are a disgrace to the county. The sooner they are gone the better.
Well said Bilbo101, they are a disgrace to the county. The sooner they are gone the better. miss_m
  • Score: 24

7:06pm Thu 1 May 14

pembrokedock123 says...

so was it that BPJ is being asked it give back the unlawful payments but there was a vote against using lawyers to force him to do so? Has he no pride? surely he will now give it back and then keep his job.

BBC Wales website puts it more clearly:
Pembrokeshire council chief asked to pay back money
Bryn Parry Jones has been urged to resign
The chief executive of Pembrokeshire council will be asked to pay back thousands of pounds after salary supplements were ruled unlawful.
so was it that BPJ is being asked it give back the unlawful payments but there was a vote against using lawyers to force him to do so? Has he no pride? surely he will now give it back and then keep his job. BBC Wales website puts it more clearly: Pembrokeshire council chief asked to pay back money Bryn Parry Jones has been urged to resign The chief executive of Pembrokeshire council will be asked to pay back thousands of pounds after salary supplements were ruled unlawful. pembrokedock123
  • Score: 15

8:11pm Thu 1 May 14

Bilbo101 says...

pembrokedock123 wrote:
so was it that BPJ is being asked it give back the unlawful payments but there was a vote against using lawyers to force him to do so? Has he no pride? surely he will now give it back and then keep his job.

BBC Wales website puts it more clearly:
Pembrokeshire council chief asked to pay back money
Bryn Parry Jones has been urged to resign
The chief executive of Pembrokeshire council will be asked to pay back thousands of pounds after salary supplements were ruled unlawful.
Bryn "urged to resign", no way, surely he cannot be allowed to escape that easily, he should be sacked big time. No golden handshake, he has already milked us for enough.

The people I feel most sorry for are the council employees, who through no fault of their own had hours and pay cuts forced upon them and then had to watch whilst Mr Slimy had a pay raise, receive an illegal payment, tried to avoid paying tax and then treat himself to a nice new £89,000 Porsche using the bumper car allowance voted through Jamie's so called Independent Plus Group. I wonder what the Plus stands for ??? maybe it is something like "Independent when it suits us" or "Independent of the Pembrokeshire electorate", yes that is probably it.

If Jamie's tongue had not been so long, brown and preoccupied then we might have got rid of this guy a few months ago. However we may still have the last laugh in the long run. I am eagerly awaiting the results of the police investigation, fingers crossed, we might get the result we are all hoping for.
[quote][p][bold]pembrokedock123[/bold] wrote: so was it that BPJ is being asked it give back the unlawful payments but there was a vote against using lawyers to force him to do so? Has he no pride? surely he will now give it back and then keep his job. BBC Wales website puts it more clearly: Pembrokeshire council chief asked to pay back money Bryn Parry Jones has been urged to resign The chief executive of Pembrokeshire council will be asked to pay back thousands of pounds after salary supplements were ruled unlawful.[/p][/quote]Bryn "urged to resign", no way, surely he cannot be allowed to escape that easily, he should be sacked big time. No golden handshake, he has already milked us for enough. The people I feel most sorry for are the council employees, who through no fault of their own had hours and pay cuts forced upon them and then had to watch whilst Mr Slimy had a pay raise, receive an illegal payment, tried to avoid paying tax and then treat himself to a nice new £89,000 Porsche using the bumper car allowance voted through Jamie's so called Independent Plus Group. I wonder what the Plus stands for ??? maybe it is something like "Independent when it suits us" or "Independent of the Pembrokeshire electorate", yes that is probably it. If Jamie's tongue had not been so long, brown and preoccupied then we might have got rid of this guy a few months ago. However we may still have the last laugh in the long run. I am eagerly awaiting the results of the police investigation, fingers crossed, we might get the result we are all hoping for. Bilbo101
  • Score: 21

11:07pm Thu 1 May 14

Shadowlands says...

It looks like the IPPG have finally lost a vote in this long, sorry saga, due to rebels voting against their beloved leader . . dont say that Jamie is losing his control of the flock . . some of his sheep may actually, finally, be getting some backbone!!
The 21 who voted against the motion may wish to consider their future now, I am sure none of them would not want to be seen as the last rat deserting the sinking ship!
It looks like the IPPG have finally lost a vote in this long, sorry saga, due to rebels voting against their beloved leader . . dont say that Jamie is losing his control of the flock . . some of his sheep may actually, finally, be getting some backbone!! The 21 who voted against the motion may wish to consider their future now, I am sure none of them would not want to be seen as the last rat deserting the sinking ship! Shadowlands
  • Score: 15

11:57pm Thu 1 May 14

Gogledd says...

they are laughing at us.
they are laughing at us. Gogledd
  • Score: 8

12:25am Fri 2 May 14

Flashbang says...

Quote from Jamie Adams:
"We have to recognise that the payments will go down as a mistake of this council. I put my hands up for my part in that, I have apologised, I have learned from that and I move on. I would respectfully suggest that council also moves on.”
Good boy Jamie, you've just put in the public domain that you are responsible for this fiasco. Come on Police, follow this up and press charges.
Quote from Jamie Adams: "We have to recognise that the payments will go down as a mistake of this council. I put my hands up for my part in that, I have apologised, I have learned from that and I move on. I would respectfully suggest that council also moves on.” Good boy Jamie, you've just put in the public domain that you are responsible for this fiasco. Come on Police, follow this up and press charges. Flashbang
  • Score: 19

7:11am Fri 2 May 14

Welshman23 says...

Well done WT on bringing this item to our attention on the day the meeting took place, however you have not once mentioned the senior officer who changed the minutes or a meeting.
Over recent months the conduct of our council from top to bottom has been disgraceful, from BPJ to Jamie (I apologise for my late, expenses & the pension Scandal) Adams at least some of or councillors finally have voted in favour of asking for the money to be returned. There are still some un answered questions
What are the names of the other people involved in these scandals.
Who is the builder who carried out the grant work in Pembroke Dock
The name of the other benefactor who was paid his pension directly.
Who is the person who changed the council minutes and what action was taken against this person
The worm is starting to turn let's get rid of this shower and let's start to blog about the good things in Fantastic Pembrokeshire.
Well done WT on bringing this item to our attention on the day the meeting took place, however you have not once mentioned the senior officer who changed the minutes or a meeting. Over recent months the conduct of our council from top to bottom has been disgraceful, from BPJ to Jamie (I apologise for my late, expenses & the pension Scandal) Adams at least some of or councillors finally have voted in favour of asking for the money to be returned. There are still some un answered questions What are the names of the other people involved in these scandals. Who is the builder who carried out the grant work in Pembroke Dock The name of the other benefactor who was paid his pension directly. Who is the person who changed the council minutes and what action was taken against this person The worm is starting to turn let's get rid of this shower and let's start to blog about the good things in Fantastic Pembrokeshire. Welshman23
  • Score: 14

7:14am Fri 2 May 14

Welshman23 says...

The 21 people that voted against the motion when will we see their names, and also the ones who voted for the motion.
If any councillors look at this Blog let's name and shame.
Bring it on.
The 21 people that voted against the motion when will we see their names, and also the ones who voted for the motion. If any councillors look at this Blog let's name and shame. Bring it on. Welshman23
  • Score: 9

7:17am Fri 2 May 14

Welshman23 says...

WT
One last favour please
The picture of BPJ is this the only one you have because of his smirk, please replace or let me know I will edit the picture for you and remove his smirk.
WT One last favour please The picture of BPJ is this the only one you have because of his smirk, please replace or let me know I will edit the picture for you and remove his smirk. Welshman23
  • Score: 11

7:23am Fri 2 May 14

Welshman23 says...

Council leader Cllr Jamie Adams said the move would be “entirely inappropriate”, “costly” and lead to a “breakdown of trust” between the authority and its employees.
Comments from Jamie Adams, if you were to ask for an opinion within the PCC workforce the word trust does not enter their minds, they feel they are working for a dictatorship.
I suggest you stop taking the Bull S**t pills they are effecting your judgement.
Council leader Cllr Jamie Adams said the move would be “entirely inappropriate”, “costly” and lead to a “breakdown of trust” between the authority and its employees. Comments from Jamie Adams, if you were to ask for an opinion within the PCC workforce the word trust does not enter their minds, they feel they are working for a dictatorship. I suggest you stop taking the Bull S**t pills they are effecting your judgement. Welshman23
  • Score: 11

7:48am Fri 2 May 14

toffeepops says...

JAIME ADAMS YOUR A DISGRACE TO THIS COUNTY, THE PLACE IS CRIPPLING UNDER OUR FEET THAT MONEY WHICH IS NOT HIS SHOULD BE DEMANDED BACK NOW WITHIN THE NEXT 24HRS NO QUESTIONS ASKED, YOU WAS ELECTED TO WORK FOR THIS COUNTY NOT ROB IT LEFT RIGHT AND CENTRE SHAME ON YOU AND WHY ISNT THAT OTHER SENIOR MEMBER NAMED
JAIME ADAMS YOUR A DISGRACE TO THIS COUNTY, THE PLACE IS CRIPPLING UNDER OUR FEET THAT MONEY WHICH IS NOT HIS SHOULD BE DEMANDED BACK NOW WITHIN THE NEXT 24HRS NO QUESTIONS ASKED, YOU WAS ELECTED TO WORK FOR THIS COUNTY NOT ROB IT LEFT RIGHT AND CENTRE SHAME ON YOU AND WHY ISNT THAT OTHER SENIOR MEMBER NAMED toffeepops
  • Score: 9

8:37am Fri 2 May 14

Indeview J Hudson says...

Who is to take the initiative for getting the Council out of this mess that the Senior Staff Committee got it into on the advice of officers?
The Head of Paid Service cannot because he has an interest, and other Senior officers may have. Besides, these officers, responsible for overseeing the procedural flaws that got the Council into this predicament, can hardly afford the Councillors confidence in moving forward.
Since rescinding the decision to stop paying the equivalent employer's S&P contribution as "salary", the Council has not been paying the S&P contributions that otherwise would have been required as normal.
Why has the Leader not taken a lead in ensuring that appropriate steps can be taken to rectify the position? He wants a line to be drawn under this, but it is unfinished business.
Of course he could also instruct that the procedural defects be rectified and new reports be submitted so that the S&P alternative payments can be re-instated.
Would anybody want to be recruited into this Council into a senior officer position however highly paid?
Who is to take the initiative for getting the Council out of this mess that the Senior Staff Committee got it into on the advice of officers? The Head of Paid Service cannot because he has an interest, and other Senior officers may have. Besides, these officers, responsible for overseeing the procedural flaws that got the Council into this predicament, can hardly afford the Councillors confidence in moving forward. Since rescinding the decision to stop paying the equivalent employer's S&P contribution as "salary", the Council has not been paying the S&P contributions that otherwise would have been required as normal. Why has the Leader not taken a lead in ensuring that appropriate steps can be taken to rectify the position? He wants a line to be drawn under this, but it is unfinished business. Of course he could also instruct that the procedural defects be rectified and new reports be submitted so that the S&P alternative payments can be re-instated. Would anybody want to be recruited into this Council into a senior officer position however highly paid? Indeview J Hudson
  • Score: 8

8:45am Fri 2 May 14

Gogledd says...

Welshman23 wrote:
Council leader Cllr Jamie Adams said the move would be “entirely inappropriate”, “costly” and lead to a “breakdown of trust” between the authority and its employees.
Comments from Jamie Adams, if you were to ask for an opinion within the PCC workforce the word trust does not enter their minds, they feel they are working for a dictatorship.
I suggest you stop taking the Bull S**t pills they are effecting your judgement.
Yes, I thought that...what trust...they have had their pay lowered and some are going through the dispute process taking years to get it sorted out while the fat cats pack it in...haha!!!...pleas
e Jamie Adams please...geta life, wake up..no one trust PCC the work force certainly dont they have are being permanently dumped on from high...its sickening...while the WG and others stand by and watch it happen...Wales is sadly going down the pan!
[quote][p][bold]Welshman23[/bold] wrote: Council leader Cllr Jamie Adams said the move would be “entirely inappropriate”, “costly” and lead to a “breakdown of trust” between the authority and its employees. Comments from Jamie Adams, if you were to ask for an opinion within the PCC workforce the word trust does not enter their minds, they feel they are working for a dictatorship. I suggest you stop taking the Bull S**t pills they are effecting your judgement.[/p][/quote]Yes, I thought that...what trust...they have had their pay lowered and some are going through the dispute process taking years to get it sorted out while the fat cats pack it in...haha!!!...pleas e Jamie Adams please...geta life, wake up..no one trust PCC the work force certainly dont they have are being permanently dumped on from high...its sickening...while the WG and others stand by and watch it happen...Wales is sadly going down the pan! Gogledd
  • Score: 8

9:38am Fri 2 May 14

Pembrokeshireboy72 says...

As a tax payer in Pembrokeshire, I don't mind some of my taxes going on legal fees to pay for a civil court case.

BTW, Margaret Hodge and her team from Westminster's Audit Office have the authority to lock people up in the Tower for the misuse of public funds. If all the WAO can do is to make polite suggestions, then I think they'd better hand their findings to those who can actually do something about this once and for all.
As a tax payer in Pembrokeshire, I don't mind some of my taxes going on legal fees to pay for a civil court case. BTW, Margaret Hodge and her team from Westminster's Audit Office have the authority to lock people up in the Tower for the misuse of public funds. If all the WAO can do is to make polite suggestions, then I think they'd better hand their findings to those who can actually do something about this once and for all. Pembrokeshireboy72
  • Score: 8

9:44am Fri 2 May 14

Sue T/K says...

PCC is run by a dictatorship with the usual ka minions in tow - answerable, it seems, to no one. Image and personal financial gain appear to be the bottom line. 'Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely'. We could come back in a year/two years etc, and the antics may have morphed but the story and the resulting anger/frustration of those of us with any conscience or ethics will be the same. Nothing will change until the current leadership figures are ousted - the nature of the beast is such that this will never be a voluntary action. I'm not particularly political, I'd back anyone with common-sense and decency. I take my hat off to Mike Stoddart and others for their tireless campaigns along these lines but I wonder how in a democratic country, an organisation designed to represent the needs of the people has managed such an insidious transformation without outside control. It should have been stopped a lot, lot sooner and now it appears that the beast has grown too big. How?
And, can anyone explain why at this stage in the process there is apparently no one in place (read organisation rather than individual) able to challenge PCC leaderships' control and antics. Perhaps tucked away in West Wales PCC is off the radar. I'm not optimistic - I'm still waiting for Mugabe to go and he's still in power at 90. BPJ is not in the same league but you get my drift!
PCC is run by a dictatorship with the usual ka minions in tow - answerable, it seems, to no one. Image and personal financial gain appear to be the bottom line. 'Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely'. We could come back in a year/two years etc, and the antics may have morphed but the story and the resulting anger/frustration of those of us with any conscience or ethics will be the same. Nothing will change until the current leadership figures are ousted - the nature of the beast is such that this will never be a voluntary action. I'm not particularly political, I'd back anyone with common-sense and decency. I take my hat off to Mike Stoddart and others for their tireless campaigns along these lines but I wonder how in a democratic country, an organisation designed to represent the needs of the people has managed such an insidious transformation without outside control. It should have been stopped a lot, lot sooner and now it appears that the beast has grown too big. How? And, can anyone explain why at this stage in the process there is apparently no one in place (read organisation rather than individual) able to challenge PCC leaderships' control and antics. Perhaps tucked away in West Wales PCC is off the radar. I'm not optimistic - I'm still waiting for Mugabe to go and he's still in power at 90. BPJ is not in the same league but you get my drift! Sue T/K
  • Score: 12

10:11am Fri 2 May 14

Gogledd says...

Sue T/K wrote:
PCC is run by a dictatorship with the usual ka minions in tow - answerable, it seems, to no one. Image and personal financial gain appear to be the bottom line. 'Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely'. We could come back in a year/two years etc, and the antics may have morphed but the story and the resulting anger/frustration of those of us with any conscience or ethics will be the same. Nothing will change until the current leadership figures are ousted - the nature of the beast is such that this will never be a voluntary action. I'm not particularly political, I'd back anyone with common-sense and decency. I take my hat off to Mike Stoddart and others for their tireless campaigns along these lines but I wonder how in a democratic country, an organisation designed to represent the needs of the people has managed such an insidious transformation without outside control. It should have been stopped a lot, lot sooner and now it appears that the beast has grown too big. How?
And, can anyone explain why at this stage in the process there is apparently no one in place (read organisation rather than individual) able to challenge PCC leaderships' control and antics. Perhaps tucked away in West Wales PCC is off the radar. I'm not optimistic - I'm still waiting for Mugabe to go and he's still in power at 90. BPJ is not in the same league but you get my drift!
Well said Sue, I didnt used to be a political animal either like u, I would vote for anyone irrespective of their party if they had common sense and decency and I have in the past done just that....but this lot is frankly unbelievable and a wake up call to what goes on...
[quote][p][bold]Sue T/K[/bold] wrote: PCC is run by a dictatorship with the usual ka minions in tow - answerable, it seems, to no one. Image and personal financial gain appear to be the bottom line. 'Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely'. We could come back in a year/two years etc, and the antics may have morphed but the story and the resulting anger/frustration of those of us with any conscience or ethics will be the same. Nothing will change until the current leadership figures are ousted - the nature of the beast is such that this will never be a voluntary action. I'm not particularly political, I'd back anyone with common-sense and decency. I take my hat off to Mike Stoddart and others for their tireless campaigns along these lines but I wonder how in a democratic country, an organisation designed to represent the needs of the people has managed such an insidious transformation without outside control. It should have been stopped a lot, lot sooner and now it appears that the beast has grown too big. How? And, can anyone explain why at this stage in the process there is apparently no one in place (read organisation rather than individual) able to challenge PCC leaderships' control and antics. Perhaps tucked away in West Wales PCC is off the radar. I'm not optimistic - I'm still waiting for Mugabe to go and he's still in power at 90. BPJ is not in the same league but you get my drift![/p][/quote]Well said Sue, I didnt used to be a political animal either like u, I would vote for anyone irrespective of their party if they had common sense and decency and I have in the past done just that....but this lot is frankly unbelievable and a wake up call to what goes on... Gogledd
  • Score: 13

10:15am Fri 2 May 14

seaveiw says...

Councillor Adams is he still not aware of the anger of the people of Pembrokeshre. The council must pay for this mistake,and also all the other misdeamors that have occurred,sorry is not enough.the 32 councillors have listened.How can repayment be costly,other government otganisations manage to obtain voluntary repayments,but I suppose this wont happen here. Which employees are in an invidious position? not the majority who work for the council, they are respected by us, most earning much less per year than these small amounts of money mentioned by Councillor Allen-Mirehouse,The faith In this corrupt council will not be restored until justice is seen to be done.
Councillor Adams is he still not aware of the anger of the people of Pembrokeshre. The council must pay for this mistake,and also all the other misdeamors that have occurred,sorry is not enough.the 32 councillors have listened.How can repayment be costly,other government otganisations manage to obtain voluntary repayments,but I suppose this wont happen here. Which employees are in an invidious position? not the majority who work for the council, they are respected by us, most earning much less per year than these small amounts of money mentioned by Councillor Allen-Mirehouse,The faith In this corrupt council will not be restored until justice is seen to be done. seaveiw
  • Score: 11

10:22am Fri 2 May 14

Sue T/K says...

Thanks Gogledd, I think the majority of people feel the same way.

Anyway, nice to know at least one of 'them' (not referring to Gogledd) is reading the comments - my score just went down from 2 thumbs up to just 1! Hope some of what is being said on here is absorbed but I suspect most of it deflects off and skims over the tops of their heads - the protagonists in PCC are a little too egocentric to be told anything.
Thanks Gogledd, I think the majority of people feel the same way. Anyway, nice to know at least one of 'them' (not referring to Gogledd) is reading the comments - my score just went down from 2 thumbs up to just 1! Hope some of what is being said on here is absorbed but I suspect most of it deflects off and skims over the tops of their heads - the protagonists in PCC are a little too egocentric to be told anything. Sue T/K
  • Score: 10

10:24am Fri 2 May 14

Sue T/K says...

Let me update that - apparently their all online reading about themselves this morning - just gone down to zero!!!!
Let me update that - apparently their all online reading about themselves this morning - just gone down to zero!!!! Sue T/K
  • Score: 8

10:26am Fri 2 May 14

Sue T/K says...

Sorry - meant to type 'they're' not 'their' in the above comment. Too much haste as I really should be concentrating on more important things than BPJ and PCC!!
Sorry - meant to type 'they're' not 'their' in the above comment. Too much haste as I really should be concentrating on more important things than BPJ and PCC!! Sue T/K
  • Score: 4

10:30am Fri 2 May 14

seaveiw says...

Sue T/K wrote:
PCC is run by a dictatorship with the usual ka minions in tow - answerable, it seems, to no one. Image and personal financial gain appear to be the bottom line. 'Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely'. We could come back in a year/two years etc, and the antics may have morphed but the story and the resulting anger/frustration of those of us with any conscience or ethics will be the same. Nothing will change until the current leadership figures are ousted - the nature of the beast is such that this will never be a voluntary action. I'm not particularly political, I'd back anyone with common-sense and decency. I take my hat off to Mike Stoddart and others for their tireless campaigns along these lines but I wonder how in a democratic country, an organisation designed to represent the needs of the people has managed such an insidious transformation without outside control. It should have been stopped a lot, lot sooner and now it appears that the beast has grown too big. How?
And, can anyone explain why at this stage in the process there is apparently no one in place (read organisation rather than individual) able to challenge PCC leaderships' control and antics. Perhaps tucked away in West Wales PCC is off the radar. I'm not optimistic - I'm still waiting for Mugabe to go and he's still in power at 90. BPJ is not in the same league but you get my drift!
Well written I AGREE
[quote][p][bold]Sue T/K[/bold] wrote: PCC is run by a dictatorship with the usual ka minions in tow - answerable, it seems, to no one. Image and personal financial gain appear to be the bottom line. 'Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely'. We could come back in a year/two years etc, and the antics may have morphed but the story and the resulting anger/frustration of those of us with any conscience or ethics will be the same. Nothing will change until the current leadership figures are ousted - the nature of the beast is such that this will never be a voluntary action. I'm not particularly political, I'd back anyone with common-sense and decency. I take my hat off to Mike Stoddart and others for their tireless campaigns along these lines but I wonder how in a democratic country, an organisation designed to represent the needs of the people has managed such an insidious transformation without outside control. It should have been stopped a lot, lot sooner and now it appears that the beast has grown too big. How? And, can anyone explain why at this stage in the process there is apparently no one in place (read organisation rather than individual) able to challenge PCC leaderships' control and antics. Perhaps tucked away in West Wales PCC is off the radar. I'm not optimistic - I'm still waiting for Mugabe to go and he's still in power at 90. BPJ is not in the same league but you get my drift![/p][/quote]Well written I AGREE seaveiw
  • Score: 10

10:32am Fri 2 May 14

JonnyBlueJeans says...

Invited? Are we all mad allowing this to happen in our county. What about a 32 second apology as well just to round it all off. He should be invited to resign
Invited? Are we all mad allowing this to happen in our county. What about a 32 second apology as well just to round it all off. He should be invited to resign JonnyBlueJeans
  • Score: 10

10:32am Fri 2 May 14

Sue T/K says...

Thanks 'seaview'.
Thanks 'seaview'. Sue T/K
  • Score: 2

10:42am Fri 2 May 14

Flashbang says...

The police should be crawling all over PCC and it's executive, the corruption is quite blatant yet the law sees nothing. Amazing!
The police should be crawling all over PCC and it's executive, the corruption is quite blatant yet the law sees nothing. Amazing! Flashbang
  • Score: 10

10:50am Fri 2 May 14

Tttoommy says...

Maybe If Bryn Jones doesn't pay back this illegal payment those few ppl involved in that "open meeting"who gave him this dosh should stump up the cash ?

Honestly if Pembs made an over payment in error (let alone an illegal payment) to any member of staff they would be expected to return it as soon as poss so why not Bryn? the same reason he's not been suspended whilst investigations are taking place?
Maybe If Bryn Jones doesn't pay back this illegal payment those few ppl involved in that "open meeting"who gave him this dosh should stump up the cash ? Honestly if Pembs made an over payment in error (let alone an illegal payment) to any member of staff they would be expected to return it as soon as poss so why not Bryn? the same reason he's not been suspended whilst investigations are taking place? Tttoommy
  • Score: 12

12:45pm Fri 2 May 14

PembrokeshireMan says...

Would it be against the law to protest outside his private residence?
Would it be against the law to protest outside his private residence? PembrokeshireMan
  • Score: 5

3:35pm Fri 2 May 14

Welshman23 says...

PembrokeshireMan wrote:
Would it be against the law to protest outside his private residence?
Where does he live.
[quote][p][bold]PembrokeshireMan[/bold] wrote: Would it be against the law to protest outside his private residence?[/p][/quote]Where does he live. Welshman23
  • Score: 5

3:37pm Fri 2 May 14

Welshman23 says...

Great comments from everyone I think I may have got an angry wife who has just seen all the goings on at PCC, watch out Welshlady 23 may be joining the blog.
Great comments from everyone I think I may have got an angry wife who has just seen all the goings on at PCC, watch out Welshlady 23 may be joining the blog. Welshman23
  • Score: 5

9:52am Sat 3 May 14

Welshman23 says...

If BPJ is invited to pay the money back will he be getting an invitation in the post very similar to a wedding invitation and will he need to reply with RSVP.
The whole thing is a shambles when will we see the list of the 21 that voted against the proposal.
If BPJ is invited to pay the money back will he be getting an invitation in the post very similar to a wedding invitation and will he need to reply with RSVP. The whole thing is a shambles when will we see the list of the 21 that voted against the proposal. Welshman23
  • Score: 4

10:44am Sat 3 May 14

Indepedant says...

The names of voters were in the Pembrokeshire Herald yesterday
The names of voters were in the Pembrokeshire Herald yesterday Indepedant
  • Score: 2

11:26am Sat 3 May 14

Bilbo101 says...

Indepedant wrote:
The names of voters were in the Pembrokeshire Herald yesterday
I looked on the Herald yesterday and whilst the story was there, I could find no mention of the 21 that voted against attempts to recover the money. I had another look this morning and it seems the story has been removed completely, very odd. Would be interesting to find out what happened to the article.

Next I visited the council website and tried to find the webcast of the council meeting and vote in particular. I did manage to finally find the webcast in question but it was quite hard to find. Anyway, I found it, but the issue is that when it came to the actual vote many of the councillors responses were so quiet as to be inaudible. I have however provided a link to the webcast and the actual vote occurs around 1hr 20mins into the cast so that you all can have a listen and try and work out for yourselves the 21 councillors who once again have failed to put the people of Pembrokeshire first. Have a listen yourselves to the vote at 1hr 20mins in and also it is worth rewinding a little to hear some of the individual councillor comments regarding the situation as it then becomes clear which side of the fence the councillors sit. I wonder if anyone is able to actually all the individual votes. Link to webcast : http://www.pembrokes
hire.public-i.tv/cor
e/portal/webcast_int
eractive/135002
[quote][p][bold]Indepedant[/bold] wrote: The names of voters were in the Pembrokeshire Herald yesterday[/p][/quote]I looked on the Herald yesterday and whilst the story was there, I could find no mention of the 21 that voted against attempts to recover the money. I had another look this morning and it seems the story has been removed completely, very odd. Would be interesting to find out what happened to the article. Next I visited the council website and tried to find the webcast of the council meeting and vote in particular. I did manage to finally find the webcast in question but it was quite hard to find. Anyway, I found it, but the issue is that when it came to the actual vote many of the councillors responses were so quiet as to be inaudible. I have however provided a link to the webcast and the actual vote occurs around 1hr 20mins into the cast so that you all can have a listen and try and work out for yourselves the 21 councillors who once again have failed to put the people of Pembrokeshire first. Have a listen yourselves to the vote at 1hr 20mins in and also it is worth rewinding a little to hear some of the individual councillor comments regarding the situation as it then becomes clear which side of the fence the councillors sit. I wonder if anyone is able to actually all the individual votes. Link to webcast : http://www.pembrokes hire.public-i.tv/cor e/portal/webcast_int eractive/135002 Bilbo101
  • Score: 2

11:32am Sat 3 May 14

Bilbo101 says...

Bilbo101 wrote:
Indepedant wrote:
The names of voters were in the Pembrokeshire Herald yesterday
I looked on the Herald yesterday and whilst the story was there, I could find no mention of the 21 that voted against attempts to recover the money. I had another look this morning and it seems the story has been removed completely, very odd. Would be interesting to find out what happened to the article.

Next I visited the council website and tried to find the webcast of the council meeting and vote in particular. I did manage to finally find the webcast in question but it was quite hard to find. Anyway, I found it, but the issue is that when it came to the actual vote many of the councillors responses were so quiet as to be inaudible. I have however provided a link to the webcast and the actual vote occurs around 1hr 20mins into the cast so that you all can have a listen and try and work out for yourselves the 21 councillors who once again have failed to put the people of Pembrokeshire first. Have a listen yourselves to the vote at 1hr 20mins in and also it is worth rewinding a little to hear some of the individual councillor comments regarding the situation as it then becomes clear which side of the fence the councillors sit. I wonder if anyone is able to actually all the individual votes. Link to webcast : http://www.pembrokes

hire.public-i.tv/cor

e/portal/webcast_int

eractive/135002
Sorry people, my mistake on the timeline, the correct time of the discussion is 39mins 15 seconds and the vote occurs about 1hr 19min http://www.pembrokes
hire.public-i.tv/cor
e/portal/webcast_int
eractive/135002
[quote][p][bold]Bilbo101[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Indepedant[/bold] wrote: The names of voters were in the Pembrokeshire Herald yesterday[/p][/quote]I looked on the Herald yesterday and whilst the story was there, I could find no mention of the 21 that voted against attempts to recover the money. I had another look this morning and it seems the story has been removed completely, very odd. Would be interesting to find out what happened to the article. Next I visited the council website and tried to find the webcast of the council meeting and vote in particular. I did manage to finally find the webcast in question but it was quite hard to find. Anyway, I found it, but the issue is that when it came to the actual vote many of the councillors responses were so quiet as to be inaudible. I have however provided a link to the webcast and the actual vote occurs around 1hr 20mins into the cast so that you all can have a listen and try and work out for yourselves the 21 councillors who once again have failed to put the people of Pembrokeshire first. Have a listen yourselves to the vote at 1hr 20mins in and also it is worth rewinding a little to hear some of the individual councillor comments regarding the situation as it then becomes clear which side of the fence the councillors sit. I wonder if anyone is able to actually all the individual votes. Link to webcast : http://www.pembrokes hire.public-i.tv/cor e/portal/webcast_int eractive/135002[/p][/quote]Sorry people, my mistake on the timeline, the correct time of the discussion is 39mins 15 seconds and the vote occurs about 1hr 19min http://www.pembrokes hire.public-i.tv/cor e/portal/webcast_int eractive/135002 Bilbo101
  • Score: 2

12:17pm Sat 3 May 14

Bilbo101 says...

Regarding the webcast, I highly recommend that you all watch and listen very carefully to it, in particular the utter rubbish that Jamie Adams sprouts, almost continuously. After the vote regarding the unlawful payments come the discussion and vote regarding whether or not the council should extend the web casting to all council meetings. It is amazing that Jamie worries about the relatively minor cost of enabling us to actually watch and listen to the council meetings and his recommendation is that the motion is not adopted yet he has no problems whatsoever when it comes to squandering our money on Bryn-Parry Jones and all his golden benefits and indeed on hiring external lawyers to defend the bad decisions and the external "consultants" to recommend them in the first place.

The more I hear of Jamie Adams the more I question his integrity and indeed ability, because it is blatantly clear to me that he is severely lacking in both departments. My message to Mr Adams is that you should also do the honourable thing and resign and go back to your fields because you are more use to us there than meddling in local government where you are clearly out of your depth and very clearly not acting in the best interests of the people of Pembrokeshire but seem to be nothing more than Bryn's personal assistant.

It would be interesting to hear other peoples opinions on the webcast, it illustrates just how badly our council is being run. See : http://www.pembrokes
hire.public-i.tv/cor
e/portal/webcast_int
eractive/135002
Regarding the webcast, I highly recommend that you all watch and listen very carefully to it, in particular the utter rubbish that Jamie Adams sprouts, almost continuously. After the vote regarding the unlawful payments come the discussion and vote regarding whether or not the council should extend the web casting to all council meetings. It is amazing that Jamie worries about the relatively minor cost of enabling us to actually watch and listen to the council meetings and his recommendation is that the motion is not adopted yet he has no problems whatsoever when it comes to squandering our money on Bryn-Parry Jones and all his golden benefits and indeed on hiring external lawyers to defend the bad decisions and the external "consultants" to recommend them in the first place. The more I hear of Jamie Adams the more I question his integrity and indeed ability, because it is blatantly clear to me that he is severely lacking in both departments. My message to Mr Adams is that you should also do the honourable thing and resign and go back to your fields because you are more use to us there than meddling in local government where you are clearly out of your depth and very clearly not acting in the best interests of the people of Pembrokeshire but seem to be nothing more than Bryn's personal assistant. It would be interesting to hear other peoples opinions on the webcast, it illustrates just how badly our council is being run. See : http://www.pembrokes hire.public-i.tv/cor e/portal/webcast_int eractive/135002 Bilbo101
  • Score: 5

7:30pm Sun 4 May 14

PembrokeshireMan says...

In all honesty, if an employer asked me to pay back alleged "unlawful" pension payments of the amounts we are talking about I would suggest to them that I would see them in court.*

*Not that I would be employed by anyone who would pay me such substantial pension payments in the first place.
In all honesty, if an employer asked me to pay back alleged "unlawful" pension payments of the amounts we are talking about I would suggest to them that I would see them in court.* *Not that I would be employed by anyone who would pay me such substantial pension payments in the first place. PembrokeshireMan
  • Score: 0

11:20am Mon 5 May 14

Tttoommy says...

I suggest that we should thank Bryn Jones, Adams and the indifference of the likes of carwyn Jones we in West Wales are now poorer than those folks in eastern Europe like Lithuania - will they in time believe their families will put it on their gravestones as their greatest contribution ?

http://www.dailymail
.co.uk/news/article-
2617938/Revealed-How
-parts-Britain-poore
r-POLAND-families-Wa
les-Cornwall-Europes
-worst-off.html
I suggest that we should thank Bryn Jones, Adams and the indifference of the likes of carwyn Jones we in West Wales are now poorer than those folks in eastern Europe like Lithuania - will they in time believe their families will put it on their gravestones as their greatest contribution ? http://www.dailymail .co.uk/news/article- 2617938/Revealed-How -parts-Britain-poore r-POLAND-families-Wa les-Cornwall-Europes -worst-off.html Tttoommy
  • Score: -2

4:53pm Mon 5 May 14

Tttoommy says...

PembrokeshireMan wrote:
In all honesty, if an employer asked me to pay back alleged "unlawful" pension payments of the amounts we are talking about I would suggest to them that I would see them in court.*

*Not that I would be employed by anyone who would pay me such substantial pension payments in the first place.
** Too honest for your own good? ;-)
[quote][p][bold]PembrokeshireMan[/bold] wrote: In all honesty, if an employer asked me to pay back alleged "unlawful" pension payments of the amounts we are talking about I would suggest to them that I would see them in court.* *Not that I would be employed by anyone who would pay me such substantial pension payments in the first place.[/p][/quote]** Too honest for your own good? ;-) Tttoommy
  • Score: 1

2:48pm Tue 6 May 14

JonnyBlueJeans says...

I light of the fact the police are to take no action is Bryn still going to be invited to pay this money back or are the council going to deny this was ever the case?
I light of the fact the police are to take no action is Bryn still going to be invited to pay this money back or are the council going to deny this was ever the case? JonnyBlueJeans
  • Score: 2

3:19pm Tue 6 May 14

Bilbo101 says...

JonnyBlueJeans wrote:
I light of the fact the police are to take no action is Bryn still going to be invited to pay this money back or are the council going to deny this was ever the case?
Yes it is all very disappointing. They have voted to ask him to voluntary pay the money back and whilst there is an moral obligation there is no legal one and considering he was happy in the first place to try and avoid paying tax I would doubt very much that he will do the honourable thing and pay the money back, I don't think it is in his character. Unfortunately I feel that this is the end of the story, he wins we lose.

Even if he did pay the money back, minus 40% tax and national insurance the council coffers will still lose when you factor in all the other costs like external legal fees etc.

The only hope we have got is come the next council elections ( and I have no idea when they are ) that we get rid of the councillors who acted against the electorates wishes and get in some new blood with better professional standards. However I am sure by that time Bryn will have retired with a great big golden handshake and will drive off into the night in his new council funded £89,000 Porsche. There is a word for people like him but unfortunately it cannot be printed here.
[quote][p][bold]JonnyBlueJeans[/bold] wrote: I light of the fact the police are to take no action is Bryn still going to be invited to pay this money back or are the council going to deny this was ever the case?[/p][/quote]Yes it is all very disappointing. They have voted to ask him to voluntary pay the money back and whilst there is an moral obligation there is no legal one and considering he was happy in the first place to try and avoid paying tax I would doubt very much that he will do the honourable thing and pay the money back, I don't think it is in his character. Unfortunately I feel that this is the end of the story, he wins we lose. Even if he did pay the money back, minus 40% tax and national insurance the council coffers will still lose when you factor in all the other costs like external legal fees etc. The only hope we have got is come the next council elections ( and I have no idea when they are ) that we get rid of the councillors who acted against the electorates wishes and get in some new blood with better professional standards. However I am sure by that time Bryn will have retired with a great big golden handshake and will drive off into the night in his new council funded £89,000 Porsche. There is a word for people like him but unfortunately it cannot be printed here. Bilbo101
  • Score: 3

9:07pm Tue 6 May 14

South of the Landsker says...

Bilbo 101, the next County Council elections are in 2017, there is a long time to wait.
Bilbo 101, the next County Council elections are in 2017, there is a long time to wait. South of the Landsker
  • Score: 1

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